From: david@rcyachts.com
Sender: Star45@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 23:50:17 +0000
Subject: Re: [Star45] Re: Epoxy Finish
Larry Very well said I could not agree with you more.
I would add to your paint selections with Chromabase\Chromaclear by DuPont. This is a two stage auto paint with a base coat \ clear coat. I have used it for the past five years and it is great. Base cost can be made in any color and dries in 15min to the point that you can tape it to add a second color or more layers of colors. The clear coat is an epoxy and is formulated to bond with the base coat, becomes touchable in an hour so it keeps dust contamination to a min. Also because there is no clear in the base coat the layers are thinner and if you do two light coats of clear, let set overnight and then wetsand with 320 and spray one last coat the next day the seam or step between colors is invisable and the finish is very very hard. I agree that Imron is fantastic stuff but would not recomend it to the hobbiest because it can cause lung failure. If you can smell it you have smelled too much. That includes the outgassing during drying. If you realy want to use it, take your boat to an autobody shop the uses it and give them a six pack of beer and have the spray your boat before he empties the gun. They will toss more paint then is needed to paint one of our boats.
Hope this helps!
Dave Ramos
9/09/2008
fiberglass notes
From: jfisher@wildblue.net
Sender: Star45@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:48:10 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Star45] Fiber glass vs just sealing the boat
Based on the damage to Phil's boat at the blackwell, I would not recommend
a bare balsa hull. If glass is hard to find, use pantyhose as your
fabric. You should seal the hull with epoxy and the glass adds a small
amount of weight.
my next boats are going to be 1/16 ply sides, 3/32 cedar bottoms and then
a .5 oz layer of glass over the bottom. I think the sides should either
be ply or have glass to prevent punctures in the case of contact. Decks
will be 1/64 ply that is painted. The decks are weak and if I get hit
while heeled over I could get holed, but that is a risk I am willing to
take.
My boats with the two layers of 3.2 oz glass over balsa have held up well.
They have been hit and the damage has been limited to the deck where the
rails flexed when hit.
John
Sender: Star45@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:48:10 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Star45] Fiber glass vs just sealing the boat
Based on the damage to Phil's boat at the blackwell, I would not recommend
a bare balsa hull. If glass is hard to find, use pantyhose as your
fabric. You should seal the hull with epoxy and the glass adds a small
amount of weight.
my next boats are going to be 1/16 ply sides, 3/32 cedar bottoms and then
a .5 oz layer of glass over the bottom. I think the sides should either
be ply or have glass to prevent punctures in the case of contact. Decks
will be 1/64 ply that is painted. The decks are weak and if I get hit
while heeled over I could get holed, but that is a risk I am willing to
take.
My boats with the two layers of 3.2 oz glass over balsa have held up well.
They have been hit and the damage has been limited to the deck where the
rails flexed when hit.
John
fiberlass notes
From: "John F. Howard"
Sender: Star45@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:08:21 -0500
Subject: RE: [Star45] Re: Epoxy Finish
Al, Epoxies stink a lot less than polyester resins (saves problems with the other half, neighbors etc) Epoxies can be clear to allow the wood to show thru (they will need a coat of UV Varnish to protect them or the epoxy will turn amber), polyester resin is not clear, usually has a green or blue non-transparent tint. Epoxies have a greater adhesion to wood Epoxies are a little softer than polyester, but for our use the difference can’t be seen or felt. Epoxies have a longer pot life and working time Epoxies are a little more flexible in the mix ratio (one or 2 drops one way or the other won’t make a difference with epoxy where a drop too much or too little of catalyst with polyester can make it set up too quick or not at all). Epoxies cost more than polyester, but the above advantages out way the cost. Epoxies do not expand like the polyurethane glues (Gorilla Glue) and additives can be used to modify the strength (colloidal silica for strength, micro balloons to lighten and make sanding of fillets easier) Epoxies take less fill coats over fiberglass than polyurethane (water or solvent based) Those are just a few reasons off the top of my head and I am sure there are more pro and con.
Sender: Star45@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:08:21 -0500
Subject: RE: [Star45] Re: Epoxy Finish
Al, Epoxies stink a lot less than polyester resins (saves problems with the other half, neighbors etc) Epoxies can be clear to allow the wood to show thru (they will need a coat of UV Varnish to protect them or the epoxy will turn amber), polyester resin is not clear, usually has a green or blue non-transparent tint. Epoxies have a greater adhesion to wood Epoxies are a little softer than polyester, but for our use the difference can’t be seen or felt. Epoxies have a longer pot life and working time Epoxies are a little more flexible in the mix ratio (one or 2 drops one way or the other won’t make a difference with epoxy where a drop too much or too little of catalyst with polyester can make it set up too quick or not at all). Epoxies cost more than polyester, but the above advantages out way the cost. Epoxies do not expand like the polyurethane glues (Gorilla Glue) and additives can be used to modify the strength (colloidal silica for strength, micro balloons to lighten and make sanding of fillets easier) Epoxies take less fill coats over fiberglass than polyurethane (water or solvent based) Those are just a few reasons off the top of my head and I am sure there are more pro and con.
fiberglass notes
rom: Philgeren@aol.com
Sender: Star45@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:57:30 EDT
Subject: Re: [Star45] Epoxy Finish
Cathy,
Please be aware that epoxy is not imune to the damaging effects of sunlight.
Sunlight (especially the UV wavelengths) destroy epoxy.
You must varnish (using a varnish containing sunscreen, such as Spar varnish) or paint epoxy to protect it from sunlight.
Kind regards,
Phil Geren
Sender: Star45@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:57:30 EDT
Subject: Re: [Star45] Epoxy Finish
Cathy,
Please be aware that epoxy is not imune to the damaging effects of sunlight.
Sunlight (especially the UV wavelengths) destroy epoxy.
You must varnish (using a varnish containing sunscreen, such as Spar varnish) or paint epoxy to protect it from sunlight.
Kind regards,
Phil Geren
fiberglass notes
From: Terry Forbes
Sender: Star45@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 06:53:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Star45] Epoxy Finish
Hi Kathy: Terry is south Florida. I have had this problem with one of my sons boats. We took the boat and removed all the hardware and fittings and wet sanded it down with 220 - 400 grit paper. We then mask off the deck as it is wood strips with clear spar varnish. We used Spray Poof Cans of Plasti-Coat from K-Mart. We used white primer with sanding and then a finish coat of white gloss. This finish is light and holds up well here in Florida. We sail in fresh and salt water. My older son's and my boat has Interlux white boat paint for the finish. We used foam brushes and thinned the paint so that it flowed out leaving a really nice glossy finish. We gave our hulls two coats with wet sanding between applications. We did not use any primer and put the paint directly on the epoxy finish. You will wan! t to wipe the hull down with the interlux cleaner prior to painting. You can see two or our boats in the photos "Terry's Lucky Star" The white boat has the interlux and the yellow hull is plasti-coat. Happy sailing Terry
clandergan wrote: Hi, When I came back to school from the summer I had a surprise. One of the boats we had painted white was now yellow brown. It seams that as the epoxy cures, it gets a lot darker. Do you hav! e any thoughts on how one gets a nice white finish? How would I go about rescuing this boat? Thanks, Cathy
Sender: Star45@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 06:53:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Star45] Epoxy Finish
Hi Kathy: Terry is south Florida. I have had this problem with one of my sons boats. We took the boat and removed all the hardware and fittings and wet sanded it down with 220 - 400 grit paper. We then mask off the deck as it is wood strips with clear spar varnish. We used Spray Poof Cans of Plasti-Coat from K-Mart. We used white primer with sanding and then a finish coat of white gloss. This finish is light and holds up well here in Florida. We sail in fresh and salt water. My older son's and my boat has Interlux white boat paint for the finish. We used foam brushes and thinned the paint so that it flowed out leaving a really nice glossy finish. We gave our hulls two coats with wet sanding between applications. We did not use any primer and put the paint directly on the epoxy finish. You will wan! t to wipe the hull down with the interlux cleaner prior to painting. You can see two or our boats in the photos "Terry's Lucky Star" The white boat has the interlux and the yellow hull is plasti-coat. Happy sailing Terry
clandergan wrote: Hi, When I came back to school from the summer I had a surprise. One of the boats we had painted white was now yellow brown. It seams that as the epoxy cures, it gets a lot darker. Do you hav! e any thoughts on how one gets a nice white finish? How would I go about rescuing this boat? Thanks, Cathy
fiberglass notes
From: "David Ramos"
Sender: Star45@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:25:22 -0400
Subject: RE: [Star45] Fiberglass deformation from cradle
Mitch You might try taking a hair dryer and GENTLY heat the hull in the area of deformation and if you can reach it on the inside press the hull out. You want to just heat the hull in the area around the deformation enough to get it to relax a bit. Be careful to not scorch the hull. Take your time and then let it set upside down to cool. I used this technique (but used a heat gun) to fix an older EC12 that did the same thing. Was your keel attached? If so make some sort of support to take the weight of the keel and use the hull cradle to keep it on the wall but not support the weight of the boat.
Sender: Star45@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:25:22 -0400
Subject: RE: [Star45] Fiberglass deformation from cradle
Mitch You might try taking a hair dryer and GENTLY heat the hull in the area of deformation and if you can reach it on the inside press the hull out. You want to just heat the hull in the area around the deformation enough to get it to relax a bit. Be careful to not scorch the hull. Take your time and then let it set upside down to cool. I used this technique (but used a heat gun) to fix an older EC12 that did the same thing. Was your keel attached? If so make some sort of support to take the weight of the keel and use the hull cradle to keep it on the wall but not support the weight of the boat.
fiberglass notes
From: "J Fisher"
Sender: Star45@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:17:20 -0700 (Mountain Standard Time)
Subject: Re: [Star45] Fiberglass deformation from cradle
Mitch, Unfortunately there is nothing I have found that will undo the damage. It is a problem with fiberglass hulls. If you apply force and heat them up they will take on a new shape. I have this happen in the cradle like you did and in the car. I have had my M fins warp from sitting in the car while I sail. If you can apply heat and some opposite pressure you might be able to get the line out, but most likely it is permanent. John
Sender: Star45@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:17:20 -0700 (Mountain Standard Time)
Subject: Re: [Star45] Fiberglass deformation from cradle
Mitch, Unfortunately there is nothing I have found that will undo the damage. It is a problem with fiberglass hulls. If you apply force and heat them up they will take on a new shape. I have this happen in the cradle like you did and in the car. I have had my M fins warp from sitting in the car while I sail. If you can apply heat and some opposite pressure you might be able to get the line out, but most likely it is permanent. John
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